And with the first pick of the 2020 NFL Draft...

[Bengals1]

Partially, not soley or even primarily.

Andy has a ceiling and we've all seen it. It's about 10-11 wins followed by a play-off loss. And that's when he has better talent around him than the team has now.

I don't see why anyone would like to keep going through that over and over. Time to look through the windshield...not the rearview mirror.

[Jmble]

Stripes I love your optimism guy, but I think you've been hanging around Skycruiser too much because I don't know what you are smoking....

I love Andy Dalton. Seriously, he's a great guy and is probably a better Quarterback than half the QBs in the league. But did you watch any of those playoff games? No, he wasn't the sole reason we lost, but the guy was terrible. The closest we came to winning a playoff game had freaking AJ McCarron at QB.

In four playoff games he threw 1 touchdown and 6 interceptions. He averaged barely over 200 yards per game and had an average QB rating of 57.8. Stats don't tell everything but they do tell something and those weren't fluke performances. We all watched those games.

We all know that Good Andy can be very good.

Andy might be able to win a playoff game, but there is no way he is going to suddenly lead this team to a Super Bowl with one or two new players.

[orange_black]

i thought it was already decided... trade Andy, draft Burrow....

why are we even discussing this?!?!??!?

[MeatHeadbengal]

i thought it was already decided... trade Andy, draft Burrow....

why are we even discussing this?!?!??!?

Cause it gives us something to do... Just let us bicker back and forth plz.... Thanks dad!

[stripesincarolina]

Stripes I love your optimism guy, but I think you've been hanging around Skycruiser too much because I don't know what you are smoking....

I love Andy Dalton. Seriously, he's a great guy and is probably a better Quarterback than half the QBs in the league. But did you watch any of those playoff games? No, he wasn't the sole reason we lost, but the guy was terrible. The closest we came to winning a playoff game had freaking AJ McCarron at QB.

In four playoff games he threw 1 touchdown and 6 interceptions. He averaged barely over 200 yards per game and had an average QB rating of 57.8. Stats don't tell everything but they do tell something and those weren't fluke performances. We all watched those games.

We all know that Good Andy can be very good.

Andy might be able to win a playoff game, but there is no way he is going to suddenly lead this team to a Super Bowl with one or two new players.

Oh man, you may have just teed up one of the longer posts in OSF history. Because as Meat said, we have nothing better to do.

First, let me say again as clearly as I can, I'm not an Andy apologist. I yell at him as much as any of us. I would be for trading Dalton away and be quite happy about it if my prior conditions are met. But to specifically address your comments about the playoffs and Dalton being a flop, the stats really don't show an accurate picture at all. Was he perfect, no. But was it mostly his fault we didn't win, not really. It's a team game. So let's dive into some details I scoured from the interwebs and my memory:

2011 – Rookie season and takes us to the playoffs. You really going to hold this first playoff loss against him? He became the first quarterback in NFL history not drafted in the first round to start all 16 games of his rookie season. Dalton became just one of five rookie quarterbacks with over 3,000 passing yards and at least 20 touchdown passes, joining fellow rookie Cam Newton and also Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Charlie Conerly. I'd say he's in some pretty good company there. Yes he had a bad game but you wouldn't have even been there without his stellar play during the season.

2012 - In a much-hyped game with the Oakland Raiders due to the return of former Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer to Cincinnati, Dalton outperformed Palmer by throwing for 210 yards and three touchdowns, achieving a 109.0 passer rating, and leading the Bengals to a 34–10 victory.[49] In the fourth quarter, an unnecessary roughness penalty by Lamarr Houston on Dalton was one part of a sequence of events leading to the ejections of Andrew Whitworth, Tommy Kelly, and Houston from the game. With his performance, Dalton became one of three players in NFL history with at least 20 touchdown passes in each of his first two seasons, joining Peyton Manning and Dan Marino. Again, he's in some great company.

In two of the next three following weeks, Dalton's mobility proved to be valuable as he scrambled for the go-ahead touchdown runs in victories over the San Diego Chargers and Philadelphia Eagles. On December 23, 2012 against the Pittsburgh Steelers, his 21-yard throw to A.J. Green with fourteen seconds remaining set up the game-winning field goal, propelling the Bengals to a 13–10 victory and a second consecutive berth in the NFL playoffs. This game marked the first time Dalton was able to defeat the divisional rival Steelers, and the first time the Bengals made the playoffs in consecutive seasons since 1981–1982.[52] The following week, Dalton threw for a touchdown and a 101.5 quarterback rating in one half of play in a 23–17 Bengals win over the Baltimore Ravens. This marked Dalton's first victory over the divisional rival Ravens and capped a 10–6 regular season record. Bottom line, once again you wouldn't have been in the playoffs without a record setting season by Dalton.

The playoff game against the Texans was a big-time defensive matchup and Dalton was under assault all day by JJ Watt. The INT by Kareem Jackson in the second quarter was NOT a pick and would have been overturned easily with today's replay. He flat out dropped the ball. Second INT in the 4th quarter was ALL AJ Green's fault. He quit running on the route and gave up an easy grab. And there were so many plays that didn't even involve the offense that cost us that game. PI calls, special teams personal fouls, etc.

2013 – You would like to say no excuses, this one is on Andy, but....... Gio fumbles at the 3 yard line. Andy’s fumble would not be a fumble under today’s rules. AJ Green drops an easy catch at the 3 yard line in the 4th quarter. Fat Albert absolutely whiffs on two lineman who cause the first INT. 2nd INT was all Dalton. That’s the one I fault him for. But there was so much going on in this game that Andy didn't have control over.

2014 They had to start Rex Burkhead and Giovanni Bernard at wide receiver because they, along with Mohammad Sanu, were the only guys who knew the offense from the receiver position. AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham, Dalton's favorite targets, were both inactive. Tyler Eifert and Marvin Jones were done weeks before the playoff game. Are you kidding me?? This was Dalton's fault??

One thing I sort of agree with is your last statement that Dalton isn't going to the Superbowl with one or two new players. I think this is likely more true than not true. HOWEVER, if you pick Burrow I can assure you that you don't get enough new players (picks) to get him to a Superbowl this year. You keep Andy (win now mode) and you have a real shot. (real, not realistic)

[Bengals1]

Okay, we officially need to get Stripes a life.

I would argue that a franchise QB is worth 3-4 normal players which is about what the additional picks you're yearning for would bring.

Also, with this team's recent draft history what makes you think we'd actually spend those extra picks wisely?

How many more "Junior" Samples do we need on this club....?

[MeatHeadbengal]

Stripes I love your optimism guy, but I think you've been hanging around Skycruiser too much because I don't know what you are smoking....

I love Andy Dalton. Seriously, he's a great guy and is probably a better Quarterback than half the QBs in the league. But did you watch any of those playoff games? No, he wasn't the sole reason we lost, but the guy was terrible. The closest we came to winning a playoff game had freaking AJ McCarron at QB.

In four playoff games he threw 1 touchdown and 6 interceptions. He averaged barely over 200 yards per game and had an average QB rating of 57.8. Stats don't tell everything but they do tell something and those weren't fluke performances. We all watched those games.

We all know that Good Andy can be very good.

Andy might be able to win a playoff game, but there is no way he is going to suddenly lead this team to a Super Bowl with one or two new players.

Oh man, you may have just teed up one of the longer posts in OSF history. Because as Meat said, we have nothing better to do.

First, let me say again as clearly as I can, I'm not an Andy apologist. I yell at him as much as any of us. I would be for trading Dalton away and be quite happy about it if my prior conditions are met. But to specifically address your comments about the playoffs and Dalton being a flop, the stats really don't show an accurate picture at all. Was he perfect, no. But was it mostly his fault we didn't win, not really. It's a team game. So let's dive into some details I scoured from the interwebs and my memory:

2011 – Rookie season and takes us to the playoffs. You really going to hold this first playoff loss against him? He became the first quarterback in NFL history not drafted in the first round to start all 16 games of his rookie season. Dalton became just one of five rookie quarterbacks with over 3,000 passing yards and at least 20 touchdown passes, joining fellow rookie Cam Newton and also Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, and Charlie Conerly. I'd say he's in some pretty good company there. Yes he had a bad game but you wouldn't have even been there without his stellar play during the season.

2012 - In a much-hyped game with the Oakland Raiders due to the return of former Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer to Cincinnati, Dalton outperformed Palmer by throwing for 210 yards and three touchdowns, achieving a 109.0 passer rating, and leading the Bengals to a 34–10 victory.[49] In the fourth quarter, an unnecessary roughness penalty by Lamarr Houston on Dalton was one part of a sequence of events leading to the ejections of Andrew Whitworth, Tommy Kelly, and Houston from the game. With his performance, Dalton became one of three players in NFL history with at least 20 touchdown passes in each of his first two seasons, joining Peyton Manning and Dan Marino. Again, he's in some great company.

In two of the next three following weeks, Dalton's mobility proved to be valuable as he scrambled for the go-ahead touchdown runs in victories over the San Diego Chargers and Philadelphia Eagles. On December 23, 2012 against the Pittsburgh Steelers, his 21-yard throw to A.J. Green with fourteen seconds remaining set up the game-winning field goal, propelling the Bengals to a 13–10 victory and a second consecutive berth in the NFL playoffs. This game marked the first time Dalton was able to defeat the divisional rival Steelers, and the first time the Bengals made the playoffs in consecutive seasons since 1981–1982.[52] The following week, Dalton threw for a touchdown and a 101.5 quarterback rating in one half of play in a 23–17 Bengals win over the Baltimore Ravens. This marked Dalton's first victory over the divisional rival Ravens and capped a 10–6 regular season record. Bottom line, once again you wouldn't have been in the playoffs without a record setting season by Dalton.

The playoff game against the Texans was a big-time defensive matchup and Dalton was under assault all day by JJ Watt. The INT by Kareem Jackson in the second quarter was NOT a pick and would have been overturned easily with today's replay. He flat out dropped the ball. Second INT in the 4th quarter was ALL AJ Green's fault. He quit running on the route and gave up an easy grab. And there were so many plays that didn't even involve the offense that cost us that game. PI calls, special teams personal fouls, etc.

2013 – You would like to say no excuses, this one is on Andy, but....... Gio fumbles at the 3 yard line. Andy’s fumble would not be a fumble under today’s rules. AJ Green drops an easy catch at the 3 yard line in the 4th quarter. Fat Albert absolutely whiffs on two lineman who cause the first INT. 2nd INT was all Dalton. That’s the one I fault him for. But there was so much going on in this game that Andy didn't have control over.

2014 They had to start Rex Burkhead and Giovanni Bernard at wide receiver because they, along with Mohammad Sanu, were the only guys who knew the offense from the receiver position. AJ Green and Jermaine Gresham, Dalton's favorite targets, were both inactive. Tyler Eifert and Marvin Jones were done weeks before the playoff game. Are you kidding me?? This was Dalton's fault??

One thing I sort of agree with is your last statement that Dalton isn't going to the Superbowl with one or two new players. I think this is likely more true than not true. HOWEVER, if you pick Burrow I can assure you that you don't get enough new players (picks) to get him to a Superbowl this year. You keep Andy (win now mode) and you have a real shot. (real, not realistic)

can I get this in audio book?

[stripesincarolina]

Hey, if we all have to read Mag's pre-draft novels (which are a good read by the way) then you guys have to endure my Andy "Aint that Bad" Dalton posts.

[Bengals1]

Hey, if we all have to read Mag's pre-draft novels (which are a good read by the way) then you guys have to endure my Andy "Aint that Bad" Dalton posts.

I'll send you one of my jmble porn tapes, that'll keep you busy for 5 minutes or so.

Which oddly enough, is longer than jmble lasts....

[skycruiser]

Also, with this team's recent draft history what makes you think we'd actually spend those extra picks wisely?

And this is exactly why we need to draft Burrow