Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

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Mag
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Mag » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:45 am

Bengals1 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:49 pm
I want to make something perfectly clear...

I can live with Chase at #5 if we get a Peckerwood or Slater or an Aloe-Vera Tucker etc... in the second round. Another O-Lineman in the 4th or 5th round wouldn't be a bad idea either.

I just worry, due to the way the draft has fallen for us before, that if we pass on Penile at 5 there'll be a run on O-Linemen late in the 1st round and we'll be left with our Peckerwood in our hands in the second round....so to speak. :oops:

I'd much rather secure Swallow and see who's left at WR in the second is all....
Even if there is a run on tackles, there should still be some good prospects there at 38. It would have to be a crazy, unprecedented run, for us to miss out. Right now, the sure thing first rounders are:

Sewell
Slater
Darrisaw
Vera Tucker (most likely a G)

Fringe (late first, early to mid 2nd):
Little-Stanford
Jenkins- OkSt
Cosmi- Texas
Eichenberg- ND
Leatherwood- Bama
Radunz- ND St

2nd, early 3rd:
Christiansen- BYU
Carmon- Clemson

Most of these guys would be 1st rd picks in any other year. It's the main reason I prefer Chase over Sewell. We get a WR1 and a OT1 in this scenario. If we go Sewell first, it's more uncertain we'd find a WR1.

MeatHeadbengal
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by MeatHeadbengal » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:30 am

Mag wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:45 am
Bengals1 wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:49 pm
I want to make something perfectly clear...

I can live with Chase at #5 if we get a Peckerwood or Slater or an Aloe-Vera Tucker etc... in the second round. Another O-Lineman in the 4th or 5th round wouldn't be a bad idea either.

I just worry, due to the way the draft has fallen for us before, that if we pass on Penile at 5 there'll be a run on O-Linemen late in the 1st round and we'll be left with our Peckerwood in our hands in the second round....so to speak. :oops:

I'd much rather secure Swallow and see who's left at WR in the second is all....
Even if there is a run on tackles, there should still be some good prospects there at 38. It would have to be a crazy, unprecedented run, for us to miss out. Right now, the sure thing first rounders are:

Sewell
Slater
Darrisaw
Vera Tucker (most likely a G)

Fringe (late first, early to mid 2nd):
Little-Stanford
Jenkins- OkSt
Cosmi- Texas
Eichenberg- ND
Leatherwood- Bama
Radunz- ND St

2nd, early 3rd:
Christiansen- BYU
Carmon- Clemson

Most of these guys would be 1st rd picks in any other year. It's the main reason I prefer Chase over Sewell. We get a WR1 and a OT1 in this scenario. If we go Sewell first, it's more uncertain we'd find a WR1.
You make a much better argument then I do...

What I feel like I'm saying (See above)

What I usually say "Ugg Ugg, Chase good Ugg Ugg"

4256 Hits
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by 4256 Hits » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:34 am

Mag wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:45 am
It's the main reason I prefer Chase over Sewell. We get a WR1 and a OT1 in this scenario. If we go Sewell first, it's more uncertain we'd find a WR1.
I am going to disagree, this year WR group is also very deep. History of the NFL has shown it is much more likely to find OT1 in the first round than WR1.

But SOP likes the flashy players so I believe they will draft Chase.

Jmble
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Jmble » Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:38 am

Mel Kiper's Big Board

I know not all of you have ESPN Plus, so I will share here.
Let's update rankings for the 2021 NFL draft. I've made my feelings well known about what I think of pro days, but they are a little more important this year because there's no combine to get official athletic testing numbers. I was waiting to update my rankings until most of the pro days were over, but there are still a few more lingering. I'm still seeing some questionable 40-yard dash times, but that happens every year.

I do think this year is going to be even more about trusting the tape -- because we're not going to have another option. There are a few prospects who won't work out for NFL teams at all. There is risk involved, sure, but the smart teams will take advantage and find gems throughout the draft.

My updated Big Board -- the top 25 prospects overall -- and the best prospects at every position are below. I have 10 prospects at every position except for long-snapper. I'll build out my rankings more over the next month and hit 300-plus by the time the draft starts on April 29. This is going to be one of the most interesting classes ever.

1. Trevor Lawrence, QB, Clemson
HT: 6-foot-6 | WT: 220 pounds | Previously: 1

Lawrence is going No. 1 to the Jaguars and will get a chance to lead the turnaround of that franchise alongside coach Urban Meyer. He has everything NFL teams want in a starting quarterback, from size to arm talent to the ability to process reads and make the right throw. He finished his Clemson career with 108 total touchdowns (18 rushing) and just 17 interceptions across three seasons. With no combine this year, Lawrence threw for scouts in February, then had surgery on his left (non-throwing) shoulder. He should still be ready for the 2021 season.



2. Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida
HT: 6-6 | WT: 239 | Previously: 5

Pitts is going to be a matchup nightmare at the next level. Don't think of him as just a tight end, though. He'll line up out wide and in the slot, too, and he has the speed to run by defensive backs. He finished the season with 12 touchdown catches in eight games while averaging 17.9 yards per reception. Pitts has a huge frame, of course, but he high-points the football well and has soft hands. A smart offensive coordinator will feed him targets just like a No. 1 receiver. He has a chance to be a top-five pick.


3. DeVonta Smith, WR, Alabama
HT: 6-1 | WT: 170 | Previously: 3

The Heisman Trophy winner capped an unbelievable season with three first-half touchdowns in Bama's national title win over Ohio State. He finished 2020 with 1,856 receiving yards and 25 total touchdowns (23 receiving, one rushing, one on a punt return). Smith was the Crimson Tide's best receiver in 2019, too, even over top-15 picks Jerry Jeudy and Henry Ruggs III. He's not going to wow with his size, but he just produces. He's a tremendous route runner, and he has great hands. He's going to be a star and top-10 pick.


4. Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU
HT: 6-1 | WT: 200 | Previously: 4

We shouldn't forget how good Chase was in 2019, when he caught 84 passes and led the country with 1,780 yards and 20 touchdowns. And after opting out of the 2020 season, he still has a chance to be the top wide receiver picked in April. He's stellar after the catch, breaking tackles and running away from defenders, and he can separate on routes. As I mentioned last summer, Chase consistently beat first-round pick A.J. Terrell in the national title game, catching nine passes for 221 yards and two TDs. He's a legitimate No. 1 wideout. Chase will work out for scouts on Wednesday.


5. Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama
HT: 5-10 | WT: 177 | Previously: 6

Waddle's game is all about speed -- he's one of the fastest prospects in this class. He averaged 18.9 yards per catch over three seasons at Alabama, though he played only five games in 2020 because of an ankle injury. Waddle was overshadowed at times by Smith, Ruggs and Jeudy at Bama, but he's a great player. He's electric with the ball in his hands, as a receiver and returner. Teams will want to take a close look at his medical reports when they can, but I expect him to go in the top 10.


6. Justin Fields, QB, Ohio State
HT: 6-3 | WT: 228 | Previously: 7

Fields had an up-and-down 2020 season, but I believe in his talent. He looked outstanding in some games and mediocre in others. He lit up a really good Clemson defense in the College Football Playoff semifinal, throwing for six touchdowns and completing 78.6% of his passes. He didn't have a great national title game, but the Alabama defense harassed him all game. Overall, he had 22 touchdown passes and six picks in eight games and ranked second overall in Total QBR (91.6). The Georgia transfer needs to get better at going through his progressions, but that can come in time. He's still young -- he started only 22 college games. Before the season, I said I wanted to see Fields improve as a decision-maker in the pocket and on off-platform throws, and though he has improved there, he needs to take a bigger step forward at the next level.


7. Zach Wilson, QB, BYU
HT: 6-2 | WT: 214 | Previously: 8

How the quarterbacks are ordered after Lawrence will depend on the team. Some will like Fields over Wilson, others will reverse it, and others could like Trey Lance or Mac Jones more. It's a fascinating quarterback class. Wilson has a stellar arm and can climb the pocket to find the open receiver. He was too inconsistent in 2019, bordering on reckless, but he was the opposite last season. He threw 33 touchdown passes (up from 11 in 2019) and only three picks. He also had 10 rushing scores and showed off his athleticism to manipulate the pocket. Wilson shows anticipation on throws. He's the complete package.


8. Penei Sewell, OT, Oregon
HT: 6-6 | WT: 330 | Previously: 2

I wrote in September that Sewell could be a top-five pick even if he never played another snap at Oregon. And I still think that's going to happen. He announced just days after my preseason Big Board was released that he was opting out of the season and entering the 2021 draft. He's the clear top offensive tackle in this class and dominated as Justin Herbert's blindside protector in 2019, winning the Outland Trophy as college football's best lineman. In a class with outstanding quarterback and wide receiver talent, Sewell won't be the sexiest pick, but he'll be an instant starter and upgrade for the team that picks him.


9. Rashawn Slater, G, Northwestern
HT: 6-4 | WT: 308 | Previously: 11

Slater is a veteran who started 37 games at both left and right tackle for the Wildcats, though there are a few teams that think he could be an All-Pro guard. He has good feet and is an excellent pass-blocker; he didn't allow a sack in 2019 while playing on the left side. He moves really well for his size. Slater opted out of the 2020 season, but he didn't need to prove much in the Big Ten. His father, Reggie, had a long career in the NBA.


10. Alijah Vera-Tucker, OL, USC
HT: 6-4 | WT: 315 | Previously: 16

Vera-Tucker is a guy I studied more in December, and I love his tape. I put him at No. 14 to the Vikings in my first mock draft and at No. 20 to the Bears in my latest mock. The former guard moved to left tackle in 2020, and he was tremendous. He has the versatility to play either spot in the NFL. He's a stellar run-blocker who has the feet to keep improving as a pass-blocker. This is one of the best top-tier offensive line classes over the past decade.


11. Micah Parsons, LB, Penn State
HT: 6-3 | WT: 246 | Previously: 10

Parsons opted out too and has been training for the 2021 draft. He was all over the field in 2018-19, racking up 191 tackles, 19 tackles for loss, 6.5 sacks and six forced fumbles. He has rare talent, though he has room to grow into the defense that picks him. He played linebacker for the Nittany Lions, but he was a defensive end in high school and could end up as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense at the next level. It's the versatility that makes him valuable, as he could also play inside linebacker in a 4-3. Parsons had five sacks in 2019, but he has a higher ceiling as a pass-rusher in the NFL. He had a great pro day workout.


12. Mac Jones, QB, Alabama
HT: 6-3 | WT: 214 | Previously: 12

How about Jones' rise in 2020? We weren't even sure he'd be Alabama's starting quarterback last summer. McShay and I had a fun debate about Jones in November. Read that piece for more thoughts. In short: He just keeps improving. I have been so impressed by his deep-ball accuracy and ability to stand in the pocket and make throws under pressure. I didn't see him as a potential first-round pick last year, when he took over after Tua Tagovailoa's injury, but he made the case in 2020, and he could go as high as No. 3 to San Francisco. Jones ranked first in the FBS in Total QBR (96.1), yards per attempt (11.1), passing first downs (202) and completion percentage (77.4%). And he won a national title. Yes, he had elite playmakers around him, but I'm a believer in his talent. He can make every throw.

13. Trey Lance, QB, North Dakota State
HT: 6-3 | WT: 224 | Previously: 13

Lance is a huge wild card in this draft. But the more you watch his 2019 tape, the more there is to like about him. He got a one-game showcase in 2020 and was just OK in that game against Central Arkansas, but as I wrote before it was played, I wasn't going to overreact to one game against an FCS opponent. He ended his college career with only 17 starts -- all wins -- and none of those came against FBS opponents. We do know that he's a phenomenal talent, though; he had 42 total touchdowns (28 passing) and zero interceptions in 2019 for the FCS champs. He threw for 2,786 yards and ran for another 1,100. With no combine, there are going to be a lot of eyes on his pro day. The other thing to note: Lance was born in 2000 -- he's going to be 20 when he gets drafted in April. He's not a finished product by any means.


14. Jamin Davis, LB, Kentucky
HT: 6-3 | WT: 234 | Previously: NR

I put Davis in my Mock Draft 3.0 because he has been a hot name over the past few weeks. He's rising and could even be the top off-ball linebacker to be picked. Davis has a big frame, and he's a tough player who tackles. He had 89 last season, along with two picks, one sack and a forced fumble. He has some versatility and could play inside or outside. I really like his 2020 tape.


15. Caleb Farley, CB, Virginia Tech
HT: 6-2 | WT: 207 | Previously: 9

Farley was the first notable prospect to opt out of the 2020 season. I wrote about him in August, and I moved him up in my cornerback rankings after watching more tape. I would love to have seen another full season of starts, just because 2019 was only his second year playing defensive back -- he played quarterback and wide receiver in high school. And that was after he tore his ACL in fall practice in 2017. But you can see Farley's tools on the Virginia Tech tape, even if he needs some refinement. Farley wasn't able to work out for scouts because of a back procedure, which means he's a bit of a wild card.


16. Kwity Paye, DE, Michigan
HT: 6-3 | WT: 270 | Previously: 20

It's all about projection with Paye, who had just two sacks in four games in 2020 (both in the season opener) and only 11.5 sacks in his four years in Ann Arbor. I don't think he has scratched the surface of his talent. He is a gifted athlete with an impressive frame, and he has some scheme versatility if he keeps growing. Paye is a great athlete -- he put up outstanding testing numbers at his pro day -- who didn't produce a ton at Michigan. If you're a general manager taking him in Round 1, you're betting on his upside.


17. Patrick Surtain II, CB, Alabama
HT: 6-2 | WT: 206 | Previously: 15

You probably recognize the name; Surtain's father, Patrick, picked off 37 passes and earned three Pro Bowl trips over 11 NFL seasons. He was a second-round pick by the Dolphins in 1998. Surtain II is a little bit bigger than his dad, but they have similar coverage traits. His frame reminds me a little bit of Marlon Humphrey, another Crimson Tide corner who went in Round 1 (2017). Surtain is a shutdown corner who can break on throws with ease -- he had 23 pass breakups over the past three seasons, along with four total interceptions. He also forced three fumbles in 2019. It's going to be close between Surtain, Farley and the next player on my list for the No. 1 corner in this class.

18. Jaycee Horn, CB, South Carolina
HT: 6-1 | WT: 205 | Previously: 21

Horn is an instinctual corner with good size and speed. He had only two interceptions in three seasons at South Carolina, but his 23 total pass breakups show that he makes plays on the ball. He should add more picks in the NFL. Horn also has three career sacks, so he could be used as a blitzer. He's another cornerback whose father played in the NFL; his dad is former wide receiver Joe Horn. Horn has a chance to go in the top 12 picks.


19. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, ILB, Notre Dame
HT: 6-2 | WT: 220 | Previously: 14

With a stellar ability to find the ball and react and with the speed to cover tight ends in the passing game, Owusu-Koramoah is a perfect fit for today's NFL. He's a three-down off-ball linebacker with sideline-to-sideline speed. He had 2.5 tackles for loss, a forced fumble, a fumble recovery and nine total tackles in the double-overtime win over Clemson in the regular season. He finished 2020 with 55 total tackles, three forced fumbles, 1.5 sacks and an interception.


20. Trevon Moehrig, S, TCU
HT: 6-2 | WT: 208 | Previously: NR

Moehrig has been my top-ranked safety for months, and I think he could be a top-20 pick. He popped on the 2019 file because he was always around the football. He had four interceptions, 11 pass breakups and 76 tackles and forced two fumbles. He had two more picks last season, including this one-handed grab. He can be a deep center fielder at free safety, but he's also not afraid to stick his head in and make a tackle.


21. Greg Newsome II, CB, Northwestern
HT: 6-1 | WT: 190 | Previously: NR

Newsome debuted in my Mock Draft 3.0, which came just after he ran a 4.40 40-yard dash at his pro day. I was going to move him up regardless of that, though, because of his film the past two seasons. He broke up 11 passes in 2019 and added nine more last season, even though he has only one career interception. He locks down receivers, and his interceptions will come in time. If your favorite team needs a starting-caliber cornerback in Round 1, you're in luck because this is a stellar corner class.


22. Jaelan Phillips, DE, Miami
HT: 6-5 | WT: 260 | Previously: 17

I mentioned in November that Phillips was off to a tremendous start in his first season with the Hurricanes, and he wreaked havoc down the stretch. He had had 5.5 sacks in his final three games. A former five-star prospect who had some injury issues at UCLA, Phillips landed at Miami and has put all of his talent together. He had only 4.5 sacks over two years with the Bruins. Phillips has a great frame for a 4-3 defensive end, and I really like his all-around game. In a class desperate for pass-rushers, I could see him being the first edge defender off the board. It's just a shame we never got to see him play on the other side of Gregory Rousseau, who opted out of the season.


23. Christian Darrisaw, OT, Virginia Tech
HT: 6-5 | WT: 314 | Previously: 18

The more I watch Darrisaw, the more I like him. He's a road grader in the running game who just mauls edge defenders. He has a mean streak and finishes plays. He started as the Hokies' left tackle as a true freshman in 2018, and he just keeps getting better. The junior is still young, but he had a phenomenal 2020 season. He just erases edge defenders. And he has the frame to stick at left tackle in the NFL.


24. Kadarius Toney, WR, Florida
HT: 5-11 | WT: 199 | Previously: 24

Toney had a great season, catching 70 passes for 984 yards and 10 touchdowns, and he was one of the best receivers at the Senior Bowl in January. He's so quick in and out of his breaks that defensive backs have trouble sticking with him. He's just a playmaker, and a smart offensive coordinator will get him at least 10 touches a game in the run and pass games. He also could be one of the NFL's best punt returners as a rookie.



25. Najee Harris, RB, Alabama
HT: 6-2 | WT: 232 | Previously: 22

What I like most about Harris -- and it's why he's my top-ranked running back -- is his receiving ability. He caught 70 passes over the past two seasons and had 11 receiving touchdowns. He can be a three-down back in the NFL. The downside about him is that he had a whopping 718 touches at Bama, including 460 carries over the past two seasons. He has taken a lot of punishment. He has stayed healthy so far, and he finished the 2020 season with 1,466 rushing yards and 26 rushing scores. He also led the FBS with 47 carries of at least 10 yards. All he does is produce.

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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Bengals1 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:35 am

4256 Hits wrote:
Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:34 am
But SOP likes the flashy players so I believe they will draft Chase.
Exactly.
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Joe Bananas
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Joe Bananas » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:50 pm

I'm at the point to where if we take Sewell im good or if we take Chase I'm good. Either way I'm going to be happy. The draft is full of olinemen near the end of the first through the second rounds and I'm ok if we get one in the second.
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something.

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Joe Bananas
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Joe Bananas » Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:51 pm

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2021/3/29/2 ... per-report

Good read about how the Eagles believe the Bengals will pick Chase at 5.

"The Eagles worked exclusively with the Dolphins, and Roseman had to keep the trade under wraps in the two-plus weeks in between to allow for the bang-bang nature of how it eventually would go down. And with a pretty good decent chance the Bengals will take LSU’s Ja’Marr Chase at five (we mentioned in our mock this week that that Joe Burrow has given Cincinnati’s brass a glowing recommendation), Philly felt comfortable with the difference in talent between six and 12—and also operated with the knowledge that it’d be hard to get a future first (this being Miami’s slotted No. 1 in 2022) in exchange for moving down closer to the draft, particularly if it looked like the top four picks would be QBs."
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something.

Exile
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Exile » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:00 pm

B1 made the point a couple pages back, and I think it's dead on. As Bengals fans, we just KNOW that they're going to screw it up somehow. If they DO draft Sewell, he'll be a bust and it'll be like "how could they draft a guy so high who didn't play in a year? And the PAC is garbage!" If we take Chase, he'll flop and it'll be like "they over-valued his relationship with Burrow." Or we trade back and that guy flops and man, we should have taken X, Y, or Z. We just know deep down that whether the organization makes the pick we want them to or not, it's going to blow up in our faces.

(Yes, that's right, Penile could blow up in our faces)

The point is, we're conditioned pessimists around here, until given reason to believe otherwise. "Reason," in this case, being more than one playoff win.

For the record, I'll be happy with Sewell, Chase, or a decent trade-back scenario.

MeatHeadbengal
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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by MeatHeadbengal » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:12 pm

Exile wrote:
Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:00 pm
B1 made the point a couple pages back, and I think it's dead on. As Bengals fans, we just KNOW that they're going to screw it up somehow. If they DO draft Sewell, he'll be a bust and it'll be like "how could they draft a guy so high who didn't play in a year? And the PAC is garbage!" If we take Chase, he'll flop and it'll be like "they over-valued his relationship with Burrow." Or we trade back and that guy flops and man, we should have taken X, Y, or Z. We just know deep down that whether the organization makes the pick we want them to or not, it's going to blow up in our faces.

(Yes, that's right, Penile could blow up in our faces)

The point is, we're conditioned pessimists around here, until given reason to believe otherwise. "Reason," in this case, being more than one playoff win.

For the record, I'll be happy with Sewell, Chase, or a decent trade-back scenario.
I'd like to correct you, SOME of us are conditioned like this... Don't lump everyone into that pessimists label, not my style and I know others are the same.

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Re: Draft Talk - Cuz it's never too early...

Post by Bengals1 » Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:35 pm

Albert Breer (@AlbertBreer)
LSU WR Ja'Marr Chase just ran a 4.38 per the watch of one scout on the ground. That's HUGE for him. Wasn't seen as a burner.
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