Draft Thoughts

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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby MeatHeadbengal » May 1st, 2017, 11:22 am

Deadcat wrote:
Mag wrote:
stripesincarolina wrote:Holy crap, Wilsons highlight reel is fun to watch! What I like here is I am beginning to see opportunities to move on from Pacman once and for all. We have options, we need to develop them.



I see the same. Between Dre being extended, Dennard getting his option picked up, Jackson waiting, Benwikere signed, plus Shaw and Russell showing some talent, the only reason to keep Jones is insurance due to possible injuries and needing a PR.

Well, Ross, Mixon, Wilson, and Erickson have the return game covered. If Dre, Dennard, and Jackson all make it through camp healthy, Jones will be cut. We could then use the cap money to extend other guys.


If they haven't cut Jones yet, I'm guessing he won't be. Mike doesn't seem to care about having nice guys on the team, nor should he really. Like I said before, that's a league problem. And despite Pacman being an asshole (very much like the Pete Rose example someone used), he's still a very talented player. If we cut him, I guarantee someone else signs him, likely Pittsburgh or Baltimore. I guess I'm okay with having him on the team, I'm just not defending him for anything other than his football talent (which is fading). Character attacks are fair game for this guy!


I'm honestly thinking we'll cut Jones but it will be before the season and during training camp. I think they are keeping him around for insurance, we all know he's still a good player but he's no where close to what he was.
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby stripesincarolina » May 1st, 2017, 1:16 pm

Pacman may turn into the 2017/2018 version of Chris Crocker.
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby Kendall » May 2nd, 2017, 7:53 am

1. John Ross WR -- Love the pick for a multitude of reasons, outlined elsewhere.

2. Joe Mixon RB -- Hate the pick, hate having to represent the pick. I actually had to do a lot of soul searching over the weekend to decide if I even wanted to hang in there as a Bengals fan after this. Ultimately, talent trumps everything else. These men are gladiators. Mixon better be superfly TNT, and he better keep his head on a swivel, because the cheap shots are coming, on and off the field.

3. Jordan Willis DE -- A+ pick. Needed an edge rusher, got an edge rusher. I think he's a better prospect that Barnett.

4. Carl Lawson DE/OLB -- A+ pick. Pass rush was definitely addressed in this draft. Every team needs at least three legit pass rush threats, and now we've got four in Geno, Dunlap, Willis, and Lawson. Hardison might be the fifth.

4. Josh Malone WR -- Seven WRs, can only keep six. Who gets cut?

4. Ryan Glasgow DT -- Adios, Fat Sims.

5. Jake Elliot K -- He's better than Zane. Been doing it at a high level for longer, and doesn't miss the chippies.

5. JJ Dielman C/G -- I just hope he's ready to kick Bodine's sorry ass to the sideline.

6. Jordan Evans LB -- The fast, athletic ILB we've been needing.

6. Brandon Wilson DB/RB/KR/PR -- A more athletic Jabrill Peppers, five rounds later.

7. Mason Schreck TE -- Won't make the team unless there's an injury to one of the other three TEs.

Overall grade: A+ on talent, B-minus when you consider all of the risks (Ross' health, Mixon, Lawson's health).
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby skycruiser » May 3rd, 2017, 2:08 pm

glad cooler heads are prevailing a bit on the mixon pick. the second he dances in the endzone vs pitt all will be forgiven
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby Deadcat » May 3rd, 2017, 3:44 pm

I'm of the belief that our coaching staff doesn't believe there is any urgency to address our offensive line. That's why we mostly neglected the position group minus one later round pick. I think most of us don't trust our staff because of experience (e.g. Bodine). I also believe that staff did not feel the need to address our linebacking corps. This is consistently neglected position group. I believe that our system doesn't place a high value on the position. Instead, our system relies on a strong pass rush and elite corners. The weakness of our system is TEs and RBs out of the backfield but since we typically rank high in the league in total defense I don't think they are too worried about something that mostly has been successful.

I also believe that Mike Brown places a high value on skill positions such as QB, RB and Wide Receiver. The only position on the line that he'll pay is left tackle. I believe we made a mistake by not tagging Whitworth who still performed, even at his elevated age, at a high-level last season. And until Oogie Boogie proved himself, I was not going to place the health of my franchise QB in his hands.

But all that said, I think the team which BPA with some consideration for need. Ross most certainly addressed a need for a speedy wideout who can take the top off the defense. Had he fallen to us last year, I believe the team would have drafted Will Fuller. Ross is way more talented than Fuller. Mixon might have been the best back in the draft. Yes, the team will need to protect him from himself, but on the field at our second round pick you can consider Mixon a steal. The next two picks addressed our need to shore up the pass rush. Lawson may be more talented than Wilson but both, with time, can contribute to our rotation of defensive line players. The next several picks were pretty consistently good value and areas of need.

Overall, I can't complain about our draft. Now, I place value differently than our front offense. I also grade our active players differently than they do. But considering their value system, I think this was a stellar draft.
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby Mag » May 4th, 2017, 9:47 am

Deadcat wrote:I'm of the belief that our coaching staff doesn't believe there is any urgency to address our offensive line. That's why we mostly neglected the position group minus one later round pick. I think most of us don't trust our staff because of experience (e.g. Bodine). I also believe that staff did not feel the need to address our linebacking corps. This is consistently neglected position group. I believe that our system doesn't place a high value on the position. Instead, our system relies on a strong pass rush and elite corners. The weakness of our system is TEs and RBs out of the backfield but since we typically rank high in the league in total defense I don't think they are too worried about something that mostly has been successful.

I also believe that Mike Brown places a high value on skill positions such as QB, RB and Wide Receiver. The only position on the line that he'll pay is left tackle. I believe we made a mistake by not tagging Whitworth who still performed, even at his elevated age, at a high-level last season. And until Oogie Boogie proved himself, I was not going to place the health of my franchise QB in his hands.

But all that said, I think the team which BPA with some consideration for need. Ross most certainly addressed a need for a speedy wideout who can take the top off the defense. Had he fallen to us last year, I believe the team would have drafted Will Fuller. Ross is way more talented than Fuller. Mixon might have been the best back in the draft. Yes, the team will need to protect him from himself, but on the field at our second round pick you can consider Mixon a steal. The next two picks addressed our need to shore up the pass rush. Lawson may be more talented than Wilson but both, with time, can contribute to our rotation of defensive line players. The next several picks were pretty consistently good value and areas of need.

Overall, I can't complain about our draft. Now, I place value differently than our front offense. I also grade our active players differently than they do. But considering their value system, I think this was a stellar draft.


I agree with your take on the coaches and the OL. In bringing back Smith, they have a guy they are confident can do the job at RT of one of the young tackles falter. You can then have both young guys battle out at left. Then scheme for the weakness by putting a TE there.

While I'm concerned about the OL, I'm not overly worried since they brought Smith back. As for the draft, there was no one who really could've helped us this year.
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby stripesincarolina » May 4th, 2017, 10:48 am

Mag, the problem is bigger than Smith coming back. The problem is depth. If Smith (especially) or any other vet gets hurt, you end up playing Fisher and Oogie Boogie no matter how bad they may be. We have to find another proven vet after cut down day to gain some insurance for the Oline. Its either that or our playbook will have to completely change to keep Andy moving vs a pocket protection strategy.
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby Deadcat » May 4th, 2017, 11:16 am

What the Bengals’ draft strategy says about the offensive line

In the weeks leading up to the draft, two things were known: the league didn’t think highly of the quality of this year’s class of offensive lineman (which is debatable), and the Bengals were comfortable letting go of their two best blockers up front. Andrew Whitworth left for Los Angeles and Kevin Zeitler left for Cleveland, and the Bengals scrambled to patch things up.

They brought back versatile (I say that word loosely) backups T.J. Johnson and Eric Winston to maintain their sense of continuity in the offensive line room. Then, they reached out to former first-round pick Andre Smith and offered him starting money as Zeitler’s replacement at right guard. Smith is coming off a four-game season in Minnesota, in which he was inconsistent at best when he started at right tackle for the Vikings, and then spent the remaining 12 weeks on Injured Reserve after injuring his triceps. While Smith brings familiarity to the offensive line having started there two years ago and the previous four years at right tackle, he shouldn’t exactly ease anyone’s worries when it comes to the questions about this year’s group up front. That’s especially true as he’s never played guard at the NFL level.

The Bengals offensive line is in much worse shape than how it looked a few months ago, but what does the Bengals draft tell us about how the club feels about its current offensive line?

The NFL Draft is a great indicator about how a team feels about the strengths and weaknesses of its roster. The plain coach speak that’s forever muttered is “drafting best player available” and “just getting good football players”, but it’s never that cut and dry. Value at certain positions differs from team to team, but every team comes in with their own plans of attack before the start of draft. How the draft plays out determines which plans they want to execute.

Personally, I believe there were two plans brewing in the Bengals’ war room on the night of Round one. They most definitely had their eyes on LSU running back Leonard Fournette, and had he somehow fallen to the Bengals, I feel confident he would’ve been the pick. For as intriguing as Fournette is from a height-weight-speed perspective, he’s very schematically limited and would force the Bengals offense to condense in style to maximize his ability. Under this direction, the Bengals would have used the combination of Fournette and Jeremy Hill to carry the ball about 30 times per game with Andy Dalton under center, Ryan Hewitt as a traditional fullback, and run an abundance of play action to take advantage of the stacked boxes that facing Fournette requires.

What this game plan would’ve done is handcuff the offensive line to strictly simplistic gap blocking by running power over and over again. It would also rarely ask them to pass block for passing plays requiring multiple progressions from Dalton. The Bengals would’ve hid their offensive line deficiencies by making everything tighter. More two tight end sets would’ve been used as well to counter the heavy boxes they would’ve faced. You could make a case that this is what the Jacksonville Jaguars are doing, only they are doing it to mask the problems of both their offensive line and their quarterback.

But, Fournette didn’t make it past the Jaguars at pick number four, so that plan went out the window. Instead, the Bengals went with their other plan, which is completely opposite of what they would’ve done with Fournette. Speed.

The selection of John Ross in the first round and then the selections of Joe Mixon and Josh Malone tell of an offensive scheme that wants to expand the field and spread everything out. The Bengals reportedly want to keep seven receivers this year, and that makes sense if they want to implement more four receiver sets in 10 personnel (one running back, no tight ends on the field). Or, they could go empty set with Dalton in the shotgun with five different pass catchers. The point being, if the draft told us anything, the Bengals wanted to help their offensive line by not adding more offensive lineman, but spreading the field by adding more weapons.

If your offensive line can’t hold up in pass protection, then the quarterback needs to get the ball out quick. Last season, the Bengals didn’t have anyone besides A.J. Green on the outside who could efficiently separate from tight man coverage. This lead to Dalton holding the ball longer than he wanted to and resulted in more sacks given up due to Dalton’s extended time in the pocket. Ross brings that trait with his start-and-stop ability as a route runner and the fear he invokes in corners playing off coverage.

Then, once you force the defense in constant nickel and dime looks when you’re constantly running three and four receiver sets effectively, the running game has more open gaps in the box for a back like Mixon, who can effectively run without a lead blocker, to gash through. Mixon’s advanced vision and burst in the hole make the offensive line’s job that much easier, especially when they’re blocking against smaller boxes as a result of the passing game.

The Bengals didn’t have to invest in the offensive line to actually help the offensive line. It’s clear they want to see what they have in Jake Fisher, Cedric Ogbuehi and maybe eventually Christian Westerman. But instead of drafting players from a class that wasn’t very strong in their eyes, they made the offensive line’s job a lot easier with the addition of faster and more effective weapons around them.

The Bengals want to spread out defenses this year and play faster than ever before; the offensive line just needs to keep up.
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Bengals free agency 2017: 4 free agents Cincinnati

Postby Deadcat » May 4th, 2017, 11:19 am

These four players could help further upgrade the Bengals’ roster and add some competition at the weakest spots.

by Jason Marcum@marcum

The NFL Draft has concluded, but there are still some pressing needs on the Bengals' roster.

Some of it is just in terms of more depth being necessary, but some of it is also due to the projected starters being a major liability. It's never too late to find help on the free agent market, so here's a look at four free agents the Bengals should consider as we head into summer.

King Dunlap

The Bengals have major questions at both offensive tackle spots heading into the 2017 season. Cedric Ogbuehi has been a disaster to this point, and Jake Fisher has been up-and-down at best. It's very likely this ends up being the worst starting tackle tandem of the Andy Dalton era, and perhaps even the Marvin Lewis era.

But the Bengals don't have to go into 2017 with such a major weakness here. There are still some quality offensive tackles on the market. Dunlap may not be someone you want starting for a full season, but he can be productive in a limited role.

And unfortunately, he may be an upgrade over Ogbuehi, which speaks to how bad the latter has been.

Ryan Clady

The Bengals would be wise to add another veteran tackle before training camp opens. Even if they have faith in Ogbuehi and Fisher, there's no depth behind them outside of Eric Winston, and Winston will be a backup at guard as well. They need another proven tackle, which Ryan Clady would give them.

Clady is a shell of the Pro Bowler he was early in his career, and he isn't someone you want starting, but he'd be great depth for the Bengals to have if he's willing to accept that kind of role, though he'd probably give Ogbuehi a run for his starting spot.

After all, Clady has made 106 career starts, including eight last year with the Jets.

Jared Odrick

You could make an argument for Jared Odrick being the best lineman on the open market. Back in 2015, Odrick signed a 5-year, $42-million contract with Jacksonville, who wound up using him as a 4-3 defensive end, despite his previous success in Miami coming as a 4-3 defensive tackle.

Odrick played as an end for a couple of seasons before having most of his success as a tackle from 2013-14, so that’s probably what he should stick to with his next team. The Bengals could use some more veteran defensive line depth, and Odrick fits the bill. He’d likely be an upgrade over Wallace Gilberry while filling his defensive tackle/end combo spot. He’d be no certainty to make the roster, but, could add depth and push the other players during training camp.

Nick Mangold

The Bengals managed to come out of yet another draft without finding a sure replacement for Russell Bodine. J.J. Dielman was added on Day 3, but, he only has give games of experience at center and the rest of his college experience was at tackle. It appears the Bengals are hell bent on sticking with their enigmatic center, but there's still hope for an upgrade in free agency.

That's where Nick Mangold comes into play. Mangold has been one of the game's best centers for much of his career, though his play has declined in recent years. He's still playing at level higher than that of Bodine, and Mangold can probably be had a decent price.

This may be the easiest way for the Bengals to upgrade their roster right now, so maybe they'll see the light and sign Mangold.
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Re: Draft Thoughts

Postby Mag » May 5th, 2017, 9:13 am

stripesincarolina wrote:Mag, the problem is bigger than Smith coming back. The problem is depth. If Smith (especially) or any other vet gets hurt, you end up playing Fisher and Oogie Boogie no matter how bad they may be. We have to find another proven vet after cut down day to gain some insurance for the Oline. Its either that or our playbook will have to completely change to keep Andy moving vs a pocket protection strategy.



I by no means think there isn't still a problem. My point was simply it wasn't as dire as it was when we first lost Whit and KZ.

I can see the team waiting to see how competition goes this summer. The young guys are going to get a chance to play and show their stuff. Not just OG and Fish, but Westerman, Johnson, Dielman, Hopkins and Redman. Remember Evan Mathis toiled away as a practice squad guy and back up. He ended up becoming a pro bowler (for another team). There could very well be depth there.

If the young guys falter, then look for them to either sign an available vet or expect a lot of 2 TE and heavy sets.
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